Home » Commercial » Airbus » A350 » Project Sunrise Major Order Update

There’s been a brand new update regarding the order situation with Project Sunrise for either the Airbus A350 or 777X. In today’s video, I take a look at the update and what it means!

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100 comments

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    • Krassi Em and how much lead would have to be installed to prevent the passengers from being exposed, how much weight would that add to the plane, would it still be able to take off?

  • Some reporting is saying the issue is the price of the aircrafts not range or capacity.
    Also I don't get the need for exercise area on the aircraft. On these flights we are told to buckle up when seated not sure how one would exercise in-flight

  • Maybe this direct flights project is a bit tricky at this time. What do you think? Imagine they want to negotiate better conditions for the stop over flights. Now, would you be willing to say, I have no choice but to stop at your major airport for refueling, or you can tell them, sorry, we are going directly 🙂

  • I know there is some pride in country that is driving your coverage of this initiative but the reality is that beyond a 10 aircraft order from Qantas, there simply are not that many airlines that are going to sign up for this aircraft configuration. With 25 million people, Australia will always be a secondary market for most of the major carriers who likely won’t be purchasing aircraft to cover one or two max daily flights. As for other markets that might be covered by such aircraft capabilities (Brazil to Asia etc) the economics are probably not there yet.

  • Project Sunrise could very well be a PR stunt as it’s increasing awareness of the Qantas brand. I’m hoping that it’s more than that though. I would love Qantas to expand into new markets as I recently moved from the states to Australia.

  • Until the economics are sorted out, it’s just talk. There has been planning (the research flights – something no one else bothered to do I’m aware of – Singapore or Emirates, etc), but as far as picking an aircraft, qantas is looking for a or b to come up with something that fits all of the parameters at the right price and a and b have to figure out how to do that and still make it viable for them. At this point each side can wait for the other to make the first move and neither may be inclined to as they feel they wouldn’t then have the upper hand.

  • I just moved to Australia a few months ago, and I can say that as a European I would be thrilled to fly directly from Sydney to London.

    • Hariz yeah but the thing is that you’re either way going to spend 20 hours in total on a flight going to Europe. You’re just not going through security and the difficulties in finding the new gate when you have a layover in whatever given airport you’re at. This will save a lot of time and help to reduce jet lag, which I am all for.

    • @Youngzee Stormzee Personally being able to stretch your legs, explore some food options in an airport and maybe even having a bed for a few hours massively outweighs the disadvantages of looking for a gate and going through security.

  • Having flown economy in a 787 for 13 hours it isn't great but what is the alternative? Do you want a 3 hour stopover or a direct flight. The choice is tours, It is a tough choice if the difference is a lot of spondoolies.

    • Thomas Mortimore 1,5 hours is nothing. You get a stretch in legs and get the blood to circulate normally again, go to a normal toilet and maybe a smoke for those who need that. In my eyes its a win win situation with those short pit stops

  • honestly, in a time when everyone should think at least a bit about carbon dioxide emissions, i feel its absurd to spent even more just for taking the fuel you need for the longer route with you. Sure all these flights are not eco-friendly to begin with but lets be ok with business people needing to do that kind of stuff, and also every posh (who can afford) 18 years old in europe certainly aspiring to spent some time down under before going to college and so on and so on. But really, do you need to burn even more fuel than needed just to make it nonstop ? Did anyone think of making a pur refueling stopover a nice thing. Going out of that f..ing metal tube, have a nice meal served sitting at a real table, having some fresh polished toilets to use while the ones in the plane are cleaned also… no connection issues, just the same plane having a little stop of 1h 1h.30 .. does that really count on a 20 hrs flight ?

  • Project Sunrise seems idealistic at this point. The recent test/stunt flights were just not realistic as they were barely half full with passengers, if that. Qantas is pushing too far, too fast on this.

  • Neither manufacturer wants to make a sub-fleet of their own aircraft with different maintenance requirements and possibly its own problems.

  • I noticed my itinerary from LAX to MEL says 16 hrs (Qantas A380). It appears they are slowing the aircraft down to save fuel. This flight used to take 13-14 hours.

    • Alex S A head wind of 100 km/h or a tailwind of 100 km/h can make your ground speed 800 or 1000 km/h. That’s roughly a 20% difference in a peak scenario

    • Henning Kaasa that is true. I wonder if there is something else to it also, because they had another flight on the same night that’s about half an hour less on flight time. I wonder if it’s airport scheduling or some other reason.

  • It will happen. There is too much at stake now for a failure. Aussie economy will get a bit of a boost in the process too. If Perth to London was a failure, Sunrise was going to be Economy Premium only. It’s time for Joe Average from UK to consider a week holiday in sunny OZ and not just Canary Islands. Don’t know what the fuss is about Cape Town, Qantas already flies to Johannesburg with Boeing 747.

    • JORDAN ILIEV Joe Average from UK fly with Emirates and Qatar if he want to go to Australia.He can choose to fly from 6 different destinations in the UK to 5 different destinations in Australia. Not need to fly into London or Sydney to fly. And the ticket price gone be lower on a 1 stop solution. The business class/premium economy tickets on SQ flights to New York is more expensive than the stopover flight in Germany.

    • Rio makes more sense than Sao Paulo as Australians have zero interest in Sao Paulo, but when my baby smiles at me I go to Rio.

  • In regards to Project Sunrise, I was amazed to read the entire story as to its problems when I typed into Google, (grammatically incorrect, but it still worked), “What does Alan Joyce want from Boeing or Airbus for Sunrise?” on this beautiful Thanksgiving Day in America. Thank-you for this report, Dj.

    Since anyone who cares can get the same search results as me, I will not quote from articles. However, has anyone at Qantas or in Australia thought about nicknaming Mr. Joyce, “Brother Teflon”, because everything seems to slide off of him and is everyone else’s fault? The two primary areas of contention are with the aircraft manufacturers and pilot’s union, whom Mr. Joyce seems to pit against the traveling public as a referee.

    I have yet to find the terms of the agreement between Mr. Joyce and the aircraft manufacturers. Nevertheless, it appears as if Mr. Joyce wants a full capacity, 3 class, 11,000 mile (~17,600 km) custom aircraft from either Airbus, Boeing, or both in which each company picks up the lion’s share of the cost. I know that in the US, there is no one (including our government) that will reimburse Boeing if this sort of precedent is set for the industry. Although each company has competitive pricing along with favorable package deals, neither is a charity to meet Mr. Joyce’s demands.

    Mr. Joyce seems to want to be pulling for the poor by demanding an economy class, which is totally unfeasible. The cost to any higher class of passenger would have to be excessive and unreasonable. Having the aircraft manufacturers make up the difference in pricing to even out the passenger costs seems to be part of his requirements to Airbus and Boeing. Commercial air travel in itself is a privilege and not a right, and I find nothing wrong with Singapore Airline’s 2 class model for its flight between Singapore and Newark.

    The negotiation between Mr. Joyce and the pilot’s union is something about which I have even less inside understanding. Union complexity combined with Mr. Joyce’s politics seem to be a real Gordian knots to me. Therefore, I can only state that there is greater stress on pilots and crew to fly that long, and Mr. Joyce refuses to yield to the union’s demand for compensation. Again, I have to leave it at that, since I am unable to find insider details to go beyond guessing as on whom to lay the blame.

    Finally, Dj mentioned flights between South American, South Africa, and Australia. Although I did not extensively research this, there does seem to be somewhat of a demand. Possibly, the demand would be greater if each side was able to negotiate for more destinations through a freedom of the skies agreement.

    Again, thank-you for the post, Dj. Happy Thanksgiving Day, America. I hope you all are well fed and ready to tackle the crowds on “Black Friday”, which to me is a worse mess than the difficulties with Project Sunrise.

    • Informative post. Just as the 737 MAX problems are more nuanced and complicated than "it has big engines," Project Sunrise is a deeper story than "choose this or that from Boeing or Airbus."

    • @George W: Thank-you for your kind reply, and I cannot agree with you more about the 737 MAX. I do my best to avoid any reference to it, because the next thing you know, the comments are doubled and the vast majority of the them are on the vulgar side.

  • A350-900ULR with premium cabin. If Airbus could once again push a MTOW a little bit, maybe around 200 passengers could be possible. Otherwise, A350Neo or 787MAX in 10+ years…

  • It’s too low volume of an order for either A or B to warrant major investment to meet requirements. QF will have to take what’s on offer with relatively minor enhancements or move on

  • It seems to me that Qantas CEO may be asking too much for the time being….The a350 and 777X are already the state of the art in the wide body sector…maybe it will need a few more years to develop a plane that can do that route…with that many passengers and facilities…

  • I thought it was mostly a PR stunt until you mentioned Qantas was insisting on having economy class. That changes everything. Singapore Airlines can justify that flight with Premium, Business and 1st Class but ti couldn't with economy. If Qantas manages to squeeze economy seats on that flight, it also means they pushing hard airframers to develop something that can handle that class also. That's very interesting. Of course, it works in Qantas' favor.

  • A flight this long wouldn't be advisable for a senior citizen, someone over 65. Heck, I don't even think anyone regardless of age that is not healthy should do a flight this long.

  • Qantas have seen that Perth to London is their highest yielding international route. People want to fly non stop. QF are convinced there is a market for direct flights from Sydney. It's now a matter of getting A or B to supply an aircraft at the right price.

    • The Perth-London flight and the Doha-Auckland flight is the 3 and 2 longest flights in the world. It’s done by ordinary aircrafts with very good range capabilities., the 777-200lr and the 787-9. If you want to go any further you have to use a special aircrafts like the A350-900ulr. Then the operating cost really skyrockets and so do the ticket price. One could say that the Doha-Auckland route is the limit for reasonable priced airplane tickets, any longer the cheapest tickets by good margins will always be a 2 hours stopover.

  • Come on, Qantas. Stop dragging your feet. If Perth to London is just so profitable, take a chance then on the aricraft offered by Airbus and Boeing (i prefer Airbus) and stop using all sorts of excuses like price to deceive the plane riding public. Otherwise, just zip it.

  • Qantas seeing themselves as an Emirates wannabe. My take is that Qantas has not figured out the economis and logistics of project sunrise and all the CEO comments are nothing but hot air.

  • In the end, the best solution is still a Boeing 777-8 in a mixed Business/Premium Economy configuration seating around 270 passengers. That should meet the requirement for the SYD/MEL to LHR or JFK flights.

    • Will noeing ever produce a glitch free plane????american plane i dustry is now even worse than american auto industry.boeing is dying like detroit

  • Just like Timmy Boy (Tim Clarke) from Emirates – Allan Joyce can't make up his mind or is pushing viciously for price concessions

  • IMO, the part of the video about which aircraft were under consideration, and Qantas going back and forth between Boeing and Airbus, could have had horse race footage.

  • What really needs to be developed is a safe and economic supersonic passenger plane. This would be the ultimate game changer. Rather than sit 20 hours on a plane, maybe 5 hours to cover the same distance.

  • Boeing B777-X do not have the range to travel nonstop from Sydney to New York or London.
    Airbus A350-1000ULR can easily make project Sunrise without hiccups.

  • The Sydney to Jo’burg flight is currently non stop on a B747, I imagine Cape Town wouldn’t be too much of a stretch.

  • I wish Qantas started flights to Nepal and Nepal airlines started flights to Australia,especially Sydney and Brisbane.

  • If more airlines had something like sunrise, then A and B would make an aircraft suitable for such. Now they have to work with what they already have.

  • my main commute is perth-moscow … i dont mind the stop overs but i would just like an option for taking an actual qantas operated flight for double status seasons .

  • Joyse needs to conseed that he can't do these flights unless he goes for all premium cabin. That is the sticking point. This will happen in yours and my lifetime.

  • US customs should also set up shop in the 3 East coast airports, so that when traveling to the States, your able to preclear, then you get off your flight froj Australia it will be much easier.

  • The only way I'll be on a plane direct to London will be in an ashes urn. That's how far away I think this dream currently is from reality commercially.

  • Interesting mate. There was also the idea of using a classic 777-200LR for the first few years although IMO that's not a great idea as there will already be a big focus on how people survive a 20hr flight and the older and less humid cabin would likely make everyone feel pretty crap. Better to wait for the right aircraft although I realise that might now be a few years away 🙁

  • This Video Topic On Project Sunrise concerning Qantas Airlines I'm watching should interesting for me to watch I hope Qantas will go with the A350-1000ULR Soon this will be a good move for them fa sure!!!!

  • Project Sunrise Flights have only been completed a few weeks ago. All Data has to be consumed and conclusions met, it may now be up to Science and Aircraft Manufacturers to come up with a model that can meet these demands through outcomes from Data processed. This is only the beginning of the experiment. I think there will be a few more revised flights. Qantas should grow a little more but world domination isn't on the agenda. The Beauty of being so far away is, if you want to visit you have to put in the time to get here.

  • South Africa and Brazil have faltering economies and don’t generate enough biz traffic to justify non stop flights. More Joyce PR.

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